Your Rainforest Mind

Support for the Excessively Curious, Creative, Smart & Sensitive

Learning Comes Easily To Gifted Kids And Adults — How Might That Be A Problem?

70 Comments

Photo courtesy of Siora Photography, Unsplash

What if learning has always been easy for you. What if you are successful at pretty much everything you try.

How might that be a problem?

Well, sweetie pie (may I call you sweetie pie?), here ya go:

If you have been recognized as gifted, the one with great potential, and so lucky to be so smart, this may result in some unintended consequences. Even though it is very important that you know you have a rainforest mind so that you understand more clearly who you are from this perspective and what it means, it is tricky terrain to navigate.

Why? Here are some possibilities (in no particular order). Which ones fit for you?

~ If your family and teachers always praised you for being the smart one and emphasized your accomplishments, your identity may now be dependent on achieving. You avoid trying anything that threatens that identity.

~ If something is not easy to learn or achieve, you conclude you are not as smart as everyone says. This can lead to  procrastination, questioning of your self-worth, and to lack of motivation.

~ You believe that smart people should not have to study or practice, so you never learned how to study and you resist practicing. As a result, confronting something difficult is overwhelming or terrifying.

~ You have to hide your frustrations and fears because people keep telling you how lucky you are. You feel guilty when you don’t always feel grateful for your capabilities.

~ You can not admit that you need help because you are supposed to know it all.

~ It is hard to find anyone to help you when you finally do admit that you need it. Because you already know many of the answers, you need to find people who are smarter than you are, and that can be difficult.

~ When you do experience success, it is hard to celebrate. Either you feel like you have not earned it because you were born gifted or you do not want others to feel bad. Or you are too busy raising the bar. Or you then feel extreme pressure to always be successful. At everything. So any success just makes the pressure worse.

~ You feel like an impostor. You have managed to accomplish a lot but you do not know how you did it.

~ Learning has always been easy. You think: Can’t anyone do what I can do?

~ How do you explain how you know what you know? You can see it or hear it once and then you know it. You have a high level of intuition as a way of knowing, too. How do you talk about all that without sounding arrogant?

~ You may have grown up believing you are either smart or you are not smart. This mindset can lead to unhealthy perfectionism, particularly, extreme fear of failure. Even with an inborn level of intellect or capacity, there is room for growth, skill development, acquiring new knowledge, expanding creativity, developing sensitivities, mastering talents, studying new material, spiritual expansion, trauma healing, building relationships, and strengthening neural pathways.

~ You have been told you are arrogant too many times so you hide your achievements.

~ School may have been terribly frustrating, year after year, if you already knew what was being taught in your classroom and if your teachers did not appreciate or understand you.

~ If you knew the material in school before it was taught, you may have believed that you always have to know something before you actually learn it. This can create confusion and avoidance particularly in college and beyond.

~ You feel like a total failure if you have not had any particularly spectacular achievements.

See what I mean?

So, darling (may I call you darling?), you are not alone if you feel discomfort, angst, anxiety, and grief over the expectation that it must be wonderful to be so smart. To learn so quickly. To be so successful.

Like my teen client said to me when I tried to understand his discomfort, angst, anxiety, and grief, “It’s not that simple. It’s never that simple.”

Indeed.

__________________________________________________

To my bloggEEs: Has learning been easy for you? What has that been like? Which of the above descriptions are familiar? Let us know your experiences. Your comments add so much. Sending much love and appreciation to you.

 

 

 

 

Author: Paula Prober

I'm a psychotherapist and consultant in private practice in Eugene, Oregon. I specialize in counseling gifted adults and consulting with parents of gifted children. The label "gifted" is often controversial and confusing. I use the metaphor of the rainforest to describe this population. Like the rainforest, these individuals are quite complex, highly sensitive, intense, multi-layered, and misunderstood. They're also curious, idealistic, highly intelligent, creative, perfectionistic, and they love learning. I've been an adjunct instructor at the University of Oregon and a guest presenter at Oregon State University and Pacific University. I've written articles on giftedness for the Eugene Register-Guard, the Psychotherapy Networker, and Advanced Development Journal. My first book, Your Rainforest Mind: A Guide to the Well-Being of Gifted Adults and Youth, was released in June 2016 by GHF Press and is available on Amazon or at your independent bookstore. My second book, Journey Into Your Rainforest Mind: A Field Guide for Gifted Adults and Teens, Book Lovers, Overthinkers, Geeks, Sensitives, Brainiacs, Intuitives, Procrastinators, and Perfectionists, was released in June 2019.

70 thoughts on “Learning Comes Easily To Gifted Kids And Adults — How Might That Be A Problem?

  1. I am the youngest of three, both my sisters are also smart, dont know if I am the smartest one, might be. And they are 5 and 7 years older, so everything I could do had already been done. so I never got the over the top praise, it was expected of me to do good. if anything it wasnt good enough because my sisters where already doing the thing. or knew the thing. if they did it at the same age as me? I dont know.

    but it is frustrating knowing you are smart but never smart enough because you can compared to your 5 and 7 years older sisters who are indeed further in their development. Never getting any slack because of my age.
    so most of my childhood I felt like two different persons, at school I was smart at home I was a half brain.

    Liked by 3 people

  2. Hmmmm… algunas de esas situaciones y, TODAS LAS ANTERIORES!… Ciertamente, cada una de las situaciones que plasman, me han sucedido, a veces algunas, a veces varias juntas y hasta contradictorias. El resultado? Llegué a pensar que todo cuanto he logrado -mucho y a veces “muy poco”-, en realidad no lo hice yo, me fue dado, y además de forma inmerecida. Por años mi sobrevaluada autoestima recibió embestidas de las cuales no ha sido fácil recuperarme.
    Entonces, convencerme de que soy quien soy y está bien poseer este don, y lo merezco y es magnífico, que en todo caso me hace responsable de hacer cosas buenas con él (que no necesariamente tienen que ser convertirme en el próximo Ghandi) y sobre todo, ser feliz. No es mi responsabilidad cubrir las expectativas que los demás tienen sobre mí.
    Pero es una trabajo arduo, y tuve que aprender que aún teniendo una enorme capacidad para aprender, todo lo que vale la pena requiere esfuerzo, dedicación y voluntad. Para aprender tuve mucho que desaprender… y para reconstruirme, tuve que romper con muchas ideas que no eran mías, con muchas expectativas que no eran mías e incluso, romper con personas significantes en mi vida, pero que no me hacían bien.
    No es un estado Zen de contemplación interior. Aprendí que tengo una voz interior que merece ser escuchada, porque es intuitiva y tiene cosas importantes que decirme. Esa es mi tarea..
    Adoro aprender, de todo, de todas las formas, y si eso me hace feliz, estoy en permanente aprendizaje… pero desde mi propia Sororidad….

    Liked by 1 person

  3. As an adult, I’ve finally learned to ask for help. Finding someone that can help is very difficult if not impossible. I’ve usually done my research and have done all troubleshooting by the time I ask for help. Finding someone that knows more than I’ve learned is difficult. I also have a blood disorder, and when I asked my doctor what he knew about it and then told him what I knew, he said, “I think you know more than any doctor in the city (Kansas City).”

    Liked by 5 people

  4. What I also find hard, is when you do have somethinb figgered out, there’s noone to celebrate with. Because noone understand what or how you did it. And most of the time they’re not even interested..

    Liked by 6 people

    • Exactly! Nobody to share your celebration and pat you on the back; either they’re jealous or, more often, they haven’t really a clue what you’re talking about or the depth of it. Always having only yourself to give yourself a ‘well done’ hasn’t worked at all for me so far.

      Liked by 5 people

  5. It is like you can read my mind…

    Liked by 2 people

  6. My sisters and I call it “The A rut” — youalways get all A’s and if you get an A- everyone is shocked and you have failed them.

    One less frequently mentioned side effect is that if you Ace everything and enjoy the challenge of learning, you can have a tough time figuring out what you are really good at and what you love to do. It’s a real problem when thinking of careers, and counselors don’t get it.

    Liked by 4 people

  7. You so consistently ‘nailed’ the path of my life, that I (my ego?) had to submit. Months ago, I said, ‘yes…Rainforest Mind’ as I recognized the accuracies being presented to me. I am a textbook case!

    I have been just as afraid of success as I have been of failure in life. I wrestle with primarily wanting to be anonymous yet absolutely needing to be in touch with my life’s purpose. Wanting to prove (in my 40’s) to myself & others that I am authenticity-driven, has led to some pretty dynamic results. For description-simplicity, I can offer that I am an occasionally extroverted introvert.

    I strive to be in alignment with my ‘gifts’ but think I deserve no extras for having them in the first place. I bury the specialties of myself yet simultaneously protect those same specialties.

    Thank you for the alignment tools. I look forward to the next installment!!

    Liked by 2 people

  8. My IQ is supposedly off the charts but higher powers that be thought “let’s have fun” so although all the smarts are there and I can absorb information faster than Sponge Bob’s pants, I am totally unable to learn from a text book or any printed learning material (I’m not dyslexic by the way, my reading skills are super powers) somewhere between reading what’s on the page to getting it deciphered and into my brain, it all gets scrambled up and although I’m trying to learn how to bake a chocolate cake my brain interprets it as instructions to build a jet powered fly swatter with unfortunately half the instructions missing and random cup measurements for choc chips and molasses sugar but teach me verbally one on one or give me something to create with my hands and suddenly rainbows appear in between the storm clouds – unfortunately the teachers I had in school didn’t do one on one teaching, you either kept up with the pack or were outcast into the wilderness, in my case special needs classes and hours and hours of boredom and frustration and creating ways to destroy myself and from day one labeled the dumb ass kid nobody could teach nothing to and when proof of my high IQ came to light I just got told I’m an under achiever and a drama queen and an attention seeker and to try harder and now I am the dumb ass adult that has wasted her potential by being too lazy to get off her ass and make something of her dead end life by using her incredible intelligence, you know not everyone is so lucky as you as to be given such gifts and you just throw them all away without even trying – no-one bothered to help me try to turn the lights on in a way my brain could recognize and I tried really hard to get it all perfectly right but my incredibly gifted brain with its phenomenally high IQ just kept on handing out failure reports and system malfunctions, I’m still trying to get it just right, just so perfectly right and although I now have some incredible people teaching me how to find that light switch, inside me I’ll always be that dumb ass kid, sometimes it’s easier to believe what you’ve been taught than to believe in what you’ve been gifted with at birth

    Liked by 4 people

    • Do you know about being twice-exceptional, Rosie? 2e? There are more types than just dyslexia. It sounds like you’ve found some help finally. Yay! Give yourself time to heal from all of the criticism and misunderstandings so that you can understand what was going on and then embrace who you really are. Thank you for sharing your story. So glad you’re finding the light switch!

      Liked by 2 people

  9. wait what………??????……….a 2E kid??????…..Paula if I didn’t have a debilitating phobia of flying I’d get on a plane right now and bugger the cost and fly out to wherever you are and give you the most ginormous hugg you’ve ever had – I have borderline personality disorder and a huge range of other stuff which all is a correct diagnosis and makes perfect sense to me considering my dim and dark past trauma events but what never made sense was being able to create a working crane out of Lego at age five but could never add up a simple line of numbers, be able to read way above my grade level but never be able to remember when or where the British bashed the hell out of the Germans, be able to follow adult conversation and retain stupid facts about butterflies tasting with their feet but could never hold a conversation with a kid my own age – I’m 48 and I’ve struggled with being a dumb ass my entire life, always the failure and never understanding why I can create pictures out of words and complex solves to problems yet WTF is 2+2 – I have always known something was off, past it’s sell by date inside my head but just couldn’t get a diagnosis or help for a learning disability cause my IQ was off the scale, the two just didn’t gel, how can you be so creative and inquisitive and have unusual insight into things, be totally intuitive and empathetic yet struggle with simple math, fail all my classes and be a complete misfit socially and academically, until now – I cannot thank you enough for turning on the lights and mentioning being a possible 2E kid – you have given me a gift I cannot thank you enough for – consider yourself hugged so hard you can’t breathe and for so long you see stars but in a really good way – a very, very inadequate thank you Paula, you are a blessing to me beyond all measure – huggz, Rosie xxx

    On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 7:42 PM Your Rainforest Mind wrote:

    > Paula Prober posted: ” What if learning has always been easy for you. What > if you are successful at pretty much everything you try. How might that be > a problem? Well, sweetie pie (may I call you sweetie pie?), here ya go: If > you have been recognized as gifted, the ” >

    Liked by 2 people

  10. All sounds familiar. No ‘well done’ or ‘good for you’, just the occasional ‘why an A-‘ or ‘you are such a smart kid’. Feeling a complete failure since I have no great career, no spectacular achievements, and I always know more than I can actually do myself, so trying to teach others seems imposter-like. When searching for help in any area, doctors, therapists, teachers seem either to assume I am stupid, or to not know any answers and even not to be aware of that. When trying to learn, I am always having too many questions – and that question, how should I interpret that in the first place? It’s wrong! The exam questions, the tests, they are all wrong! That’s how it feels. Obviously, a thin line between failure and success, but how to cross it…?
    Love your posts as always Paula, a little homecoming…

    Liked by 4 people

  11. A bit of a cri de ceur:

    I learn easily, which is great. But it can be so hard to get a teacher to explain the things I don’t yet understand, even if they know the things I would like to learn.

    Even now, as an adult, my questions are usually not like the ones that the rest of the class ask, and all too often the answers to my questions seemingly obscure the ‘simple’ point that the teacher is trying to pass on to the class – I know that, but to me it is a nuance that I NEED to understand, because otherwise the apparent (to me) contradiction will make me doubt the whole thing and prevent me from seeing the big picture that I use to make sense of the details (yeah, I work top down – bottom up learners and teachers get perplexed by that, but I get lost in details if I have nothing to hang them on).

    It’s like, everyone else gets help and answers at their level, but I rarely do; by the time the class is ready for my question, I have moved on to another.

    I do need help and support, though. I mean, it’s like being a kid in fourth grade, working at a sixth grade level: If I were a regular kid in the sixth grade, I would not be expected to sort everything out for myself – sixth graders are just small kids, right? – but as I’m in fact only in the fourth grade I am asked to wait for the class to reach grade 6 – by which time I have to wait for them to reach grade 8…

    Sometimes my questions catch teachers completely off guard, and they get frustrated and annoyed with their own inability to answer – and I will pick up on their feelings and automatically think that they are angry with me for asking. Then I’ll spend a lot of energy trying to devine how I should have framed my question in order to not make them dislike me. Or how I can possibly make up for the mess.

    Sometimes I get the feeling that they think I’m asking these annoying questions just to challenge them (I don’t), or that I’m just nitpicking for the fun of it (I’m not).

    Also, some people regularly use praise as a kind of excuse or pacifier. Like: “You have this incredibly special way of thinking (which is why the rest of the world doesn’t understand you / envy you / doesn’t fit your needs). Good on you!” – What am I supposed to do with that? Be grateful for their praise?

    Sometimes my stomach turns when someone calls me smart, or say something to the same effect. Honestly, I don’t want to be smart; I want to be understood and loved, just as everyone else.

    Ok, I do want to be ‘smart’. But not at the expense of those other things.

    Liked by 5 people

    • This is such a great explanation of what many RFMs experience around asking questions in school. Thank you for sharing, noajjoan. It will help others to read this. We get you!!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Excelente!… hace unos años, mi hermano me decía que mil veces cambiaría “conocer”, “entender” y “saber”, por menos angustia, tranquilidad y paz, como la de los demás… Es una declaración muy triste porque, básicamente, se negaba a si mismo su propia identidad. Eres más que la suma de tu inteligencia o de tus capacidades cognitivas, pero ellas son parte de los rasgos que te hace ser quien eres. Si empiezas por entender, por aceptarte, entonces comienzas a comprender que no necesitas sacrificar tu capacidad, sino esencialmente, transformar el enfoque con el cual te ves a ti mismo y te relacionas con otros… incluso con “cuales otros “… Pero negar quien eres, es un sacrificio que no vale la pena…

      Liked by 3 people

      • añado: todos queremos ser amados y valorados… en la medida en que nos entendemos y aceptamos a nosotros mismos, empezamos a entender cómo nos perciben los otros y cómo perciben… podemos ser más tolerantes y relacionarnos mejor… claro, es mi percepción muy personal…

        Liked by 1 person

    • naojjoan Yes Yes exactly!! So well put, brings memories flying to the surface. Walk that back down the road many years when the world wasn’t even really aware that ‘gifted’ existed or was a deeply complex subject. The adult that comes out of the treatment in school is in constant conflict – wild “successes” that just feel like they don’t count because they were easy, and spectacular failures based in large part on rebellion. Desperately always wanting someone to just understand and accept me and love me for who I am…. and stop stop asking me why I ask so many question, stop telling me I’m too analytical, stop telling me I’m too honest, too this, too that. Stop demanding that I fit into the usual box. Leads to an up and down life of confusion and misery and self-hatred. Tears ran down my cheeks when I found this site and FINALLY I understand that I really am an acceptable human, that maybe I’m not the warped unlovable monster that everybody hates but loves to use, to take advantage of; that maybe the therapists I had tried over the years didn’t “get” me NOT because I was so broken, but because I was fairly unique and special.

      I was born so trusting. It took years and years of scarring to finally make me remember to keep myself totally hidden even when I thought it might be safe…. because it was never safe. It’s taken me months of reading this blog to get up the courage to comment for fear that here I wasn’t good enough, smart enough, useful enough…
      Now that I have light I will forge on and never never give up because even after all these decades I cannot imagine life worth living if I couldn’t wonder constantly and talk to trees and always try to figure out how to make things better and happier for all life.
      There is so much hope here with all of you; so much hope 🙂

      Liked by 4 people

  12. It makes it so hard to figure out what career, job, interests to follow. People say what are you good at? But I’m good at almost everything I do even the things I don’t enjoy that much! Can’t tell people that though or they think you are arrogant. I’m lucky I work with a few other gifted nerdy nerds like me so we can talk about the 47million projects we all have going on.

    Liked by 4 people

  13. Nice post, Paula. A lot of this resonates with me, as well. I know that this in particular was a problem for me:

    “You believe that smart people should not have to study or practice, so you never learned how to study and you resist practicing. As a result, confronting something difficult is overwhelming or terrifying.”

    On my way through the two years of high school I bothered with, I never brought books home, never took notes, never studied, skipped classes every day, would improvise oral book reports on the spot, and never got below a B+. When I got to college, some things remained simple (it was a breeze to pass an essay test because I could quote by the paragraph, with page numbers), and some things seemed puzzlingly difficult (passing a language class). One summer I failed intensive Russian so badly the teacher told me it was the last day to see the bursar and get a partial refund. I swore I would pass. I reached out to my classmates to teach me how to study. I ended up learning how to study, passed the class, and developed a lifelong love for languages.

    I never could practice a musical instrument for more than a couple of months, though.

    That’s one thing I gave my son: I pushed him early towards music, so he could learn to practice things. As a result, he kinda sorta knows how to study, at 15. And, of course, he’s an amazing musician who practices every day.

    I think there’s a lot of potential for therapy directed towards the gifted. My son has benefited from therapy immensely, and it’s all in the open because they have access to his tests, etc.

    In my case, I’ve also benefited from seeing someone, but I don’t feel like I can be open with him about the extent to which my intelligence is part of my problem. It seems like bragging, and people really don’t want to hear about how smart one is. Why should I feel like I have to take care of the feelings of my therapist? Yet I worry it will perturb our civil and helpful relationship if I say, “and another thing… I’m socially isolated in part because my IQ is so high I can’t stand to talk to most people.”

    Ah, yes, praise as an excuse. How many times have I been told “You’re so intense!” in a distancing way that made me almost sick to my stomach?

    Not much has changed since Grady Towers wrote this:
    http://www.worlddreambank.org/O/OUTSIDRS.HTM

    Liked by 4 people

    • Thank you for these examples, Dr. Dad. So glad your son can benefit from your experience. I understand your reluctance to mention your IQ in therapy but maybe there’s way to introduce your RFM that might be important as a way for your therapist to serve you better. You could mention my blog?? Perhaps the therapist has other clients who are RFMs and is wondering how to deepen the work??

      Like

      • I hope you don’t take offense, Paula, but “RFM” is an idiosyncratic invention of yours. I like it, but I think if I want to communicate with someone else I should use terms in common use to maximize understanding. I may inch toward discussing this with him, but I would likely proceed slowly, on the basis of confirmed mutual references.

        Liked by 1 person

        • No offense taken, Dr. Dad. What you’re saying makes sense to me. 🙂

          Like

          • Dr Dad mentions the lack of ‘rainforest mind’ being in the vernacular yet but, for me at least, it is such a perfect picture of who I am. For those of us acutely tuned to nature and living outdoors so much, rainforest mind is exactly what I am — it encompasses the strength and fragility, the complexity and symphony and diversity and vibrance of endless activity that a true rainforest is. In my search for therapists I haven’t found anyone yet familiar with the term but a couple of them have come here to read about it when I told them. 🙂

            And when I finally do get brave enough to start therapy again, I will explain myself in those terms, of a rainforest, because it is such a beautiful and perfect mirror of my chaotic inside world. Deeply indebted to you Paula

            Liked by 3 people

      • Hi Paula. I did try to bring up the issues that having a .999 IQ brings with my provider. I don’t think he really heard me though. I eased into the topic through discussing the sources of stress in my life, among which are my son’s difficulties with his age peers. I mentioned that my son had scored in the 99.5th percentile on a recent standardized test, and that I had criticized him and said he should study next year, and that my son had told me that’s one of the things he loves about me: I know what he’s actually capable of, and hold him to that standard rather than letting him rest on his laurels. He will study a bit next year, and go for 99.9.

        I segued to how my son can’t tell his school peers about his scores, because he gets “smart-shamed” enough, and about how having a high IQ can be alienating and make socialization difficult. Then I brought up that I suffer from alienation as well because of my smarts. I can talk to all kinds of people, but I can only have a fulfilling conversation, or become real friends with, someone of a similar IQ.

        I like my provider. He seems like a nice guy. I enjoy our conversations. But he didn’t get it. He said his parents would have been thrilled if he’d ever scored that highly on anything. So I moved on.

        It’s not my responsibility to make him understand me. I don’t think someone who hasn’t experienced it is likely to understand it. If one keeps talking about it, envy turns quickly to resentment. I think I could only productively talk about the alienation caused by having a very high IQ with another similarly afflicted person. And it is confounding how poorly IQ matches achievement.

        But thanks for the encouragement.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Oh, I’m so sorry Dr. Dad. I was hoping you’d found someone who would understand, But I hear you. Sadly, your experience is not uncommon. It sounds like you’re still getting some benefits from the counseling. But ugh. I’ve tried to get this message out to therapists via a popular journal called the Psychotherapy Networker. They have a conference every year. So far, my proposals for a presentation have been rejected. I got a case study published with them in 2004 but that’s it! The people at http://www.sengifted.org continue to provide training for therapists at their yearly conference, so the message is getting out there. But it’s slow. They have a list of professionals on their site who know about giftedness if you want to check it out. But it’s still a short list. And I totally agree with you that it’s not your job to educate your therapist!! Thanks for sharing this, Dr. Dad.

          Like

  14. I would live to share this post with my son (22) who ticks off all the points but worry it might make him feel worse. He has been struggling early career with the sense of being complete failure because is job is ordinary. Seeing new therapist who specializes in gifted so hopefully will.help with all the issues mentioned. So will it help him to share, RFMs?

    Liked by 2 people

    • If he has a therapist who specializes in giftedness, maybe that’s all you need for now if you think the post might be triggering. It could be good, though, for his therapist to know about the blog!

      Like

    • I’d say to start with the ‘quiz’ that Paula has on another page, as this post might hit hard for a ‘first time’ read (because it is so ‘spot-on’). Don’t include the title, just copy the ‘quiz’ in to a blank document and give it to your son and let him read it and check off what he finds relevant to him (maybe let him ponder it while alone so he can reflect in peace, but when you are nearby to discuss if he wants that support). Then have a conversation about it (not necessarily the same day). If the quiz was helpful, then share this post as a follow-up. Hope the new therapist is helpful.

      Liked by 1 person

  15. I read it, related, loved it, and then sent the link to my teenage daughter. I told her I didn’t figure these things out until I was an adult, but hopefully I can give her a head start. Thanks so much.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Thanks for the post Paola. Now that i finally understand how i am, i am starting making decisions aligned with my true self.

    I normally feel very average at least, and it seems that i cant not be happy if i do not do extraordinary things. (By the way, i have no big achivements in my life, and that makes me feel like a ” failure as a rainforest mind””).

    This past months i am training myself in being consistent, in having perseverance when things start to feel difficult and i want to quit because i feel that if it is easy there is something wrong with me or the thing is not worthy.

    Abrazos💗

    Liked by 4 people

  17. Well I missed the flurry of commenting in the days after this wonderful post, but I must say that this Sunday night ‘therapy’ of reading all your very real comments, humourous anecdotes and long-distance sending of thankful hugs has really made me smile. I am also thrilled about more comments in Spanish, Carla 🙂 (¡gracias!)
    2 quotes to ponder…
    1. “To be changed by ideas was pure pleasure. But to learn ideas that ran counter to values and beliefs learned at home was to place oneself at risk, to enter the danger zone. Home was the place where I was forced to conform to someone else’s image of who and what I should be. School was the place where I could forget that self and, through ideas, reinvent myself.” ―bell hooks, 1994.
    –>This is tricky; this may be true for some. And for others, only in the class of a special teacher? Some people never had this experience at school or at home, and for some others, ‘home’ and ‘school’ in this quote could be flipped to make the quote true.
    But the cool part is that school doesn’t last forever. There is a third realm of the privacy of one’s mind/soul/heart, and then fourth, fifth, sixth… realm(s) for one’s hobbies/skills realms of existence, wherever those exist.
    I think there are multiple other realms any time we dive into a really good book; as in, there is a realm for each of those life-altering books, a headspace of perspective-founding that we can attribute to each of those good books or authors (even though, yes, we read each within the context of what we’ve already read or have as our beliefs up until then).
    Plus, there is definitely another realm for time spent in nature (along a beach, in a forest, contemplating the universe on a starry night…). And then there is this blog network (plus face-to-face therapy if we are lucky to find someone who understands).
    –> So, there are many places where we CAN STILL reinvent ourselves. I am curious: What other realms do you all reinvent yourselves in?

    And remember…(just found this quote this week! Yes, time helps, but…)
    “Do not be dismayed by the brokenness of the world. All things break. And all things can be mended. Not with time, as they say, but with intention. So go. Love intentionally, extravagantly, unconditionally. The broken world waits in darkness for the light that is you.” ― L.R. Knost
    (so, go love what you love doing and those beings with whom you love spending time)

    Sending you all good vibes and hugs! ¡Les mando a las hispanohablantes buenas vibras y fuertes abrazos!

    Liked by 4 people

    • Oh, cmd1122, thank you so much for the quotes and your thoughts!! Your insights help all of us. I continue to be so touched and appreciative of everyone’s thoughtful sharing. Hugs and good vibes to all!! ❤

      Like

    • Créeme, es un honor participar, es un placer descubrir-nos entre todos y encontrarnos… y además es muy gratificante que las diferencias de idioma no nos detengan. Gracias a ti!, a Paula, a todos por recibirme, por hacer este tan necesario feedback. Paula, tu artículos no sólo son una desafío y un descubrimiento para cada uno, sino que tienen el valor agregado de crear las condiciones para que podamos encontrarnos. Padres y madres y niños y niñas superdotados, adultos superdotados… toda una biodiversidad… Namasté!
      Me encanta esa propuesta de los multireinos. Creo que las personas con altas capacidades nos enfocamos demasiado en ciertas expectativas que al final no son nuestras y postergamos o enredamos “sin querer queriendo” el reinventarnos, una vez que nos hemos identificado.
      En medio de todo ese proceso de identificación -en este caso de mis hijos, que fue donde empezó todo- habla con la psicóloga de ellos -quien me ha ayudado muchísimo- y llega en lo muy personal a una conclusión un poco drástica: -ajá!, ya se que son superdotados, que su coeficiente es superior a la media y que con ello vienen asociados un conjunto de rasgos y desafíos existenciales; ajá! ya entiendo más sobre el desafío escolar y comprendo que en la realidad socio-económica en que vivimos, no existen políticas sociales de atención escolar o de otra índole para mis hijos, y para el universo de niños AACC de mi país; ajá! ya se de la incomprensión social, familiar. Del desconocimiento. Y ya se del potencial de mis hijos…. y, ahora?….- sin dramatismos, sólo pude responder: “-ahora hay que construir las condiciones para que aprendan a ser felices, como son y dónde están”… comprendí que lidiar con la escuela era una batalle que a veces mis hijo no querían que yo diera, y a veces tenían razón, comprendía que era mejor fortalecerlos a ellos, que comprendieran quienes son y por qué son como son, y no tratar de obligar al resto del mundo a ver lo que aún no quiere ver… no es la escuela? serán las otras actividades donde puedan explorar sus talentos… los cambios se pueden, pero un paso a la vez. Aprendí que la prioridad es SER FELICES… y me enfoco en ello.
      Y aplica igual para nosotros. En este proceso descubrí que fui victima de negligencia y desconocimiento durante mi crecimiento, y eso dejó huellas… pero ya pasó. Que soy ahora dueña de mi proceso, que soy la artista e ingeniera de mi reinvención… y en medio de un montón de dificultades externas, estoy decidida a ser feliz construyendo la versión de misma que quiero ser y soy…. Creo que eso se llama encontrar mi MUCHOSIDAD…. y de eso se trata, ser MUCHO más yo cada día….
      Gracias por estar!!!!!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Carlita. Thank you for your input. Your writing in Spanish adds a lovely flavor to my blog. Gracias Carlita ¡Tu escritura en español agrega un sabor encantador a mi blog! (courtesy of Google translate) 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

      • Encontrar mi MUCHOS! Me encanta esa perspectiva, tan adecuada. (también me encanta el traductor de Google) 🙂
        Finding my MANY! I love that outlook, so fitting. (also love Google translate) 😀

        Liked by 2 people

      • Estoy de acuerdo con los demás. Me gusta de la palabra MUCHOSIDAD, lo que sería MUCHNESS in inglés, invención de Lewis Carroll. Así que, Carlita, no pierdas tu muchosidad, al contrario, tenga orgullo de ella, sea dueña de ella.

        Es el anverso de lo que me han comentado tantas veces, que “Tu eres demasiado.” No. Yo soy exactamente lo que debo ser, y es solo por compasión que no responde que son ellos que no bastan. Tampoco me debo esconder porque no me pueden ver en totalidad.

        Liked by 2 people

        • Si aquí hubiesen emojis, te mandaría un montón!!!!! si ese término de L. Carroll en su extraordinaria Alicia me encantó… y creo que de esto se trata…Más allá del tema del IQ por sí mismo creo que el punto radica en descubrir que no éramos tan raros, sino que estábamos viendo las cosas desde la perspectiva impuesta por otros, y cuando comenzamos a descubrir la nuestra, y comenzamos a responde a nuestra propia perspectiva, es cuando hallamos nuestra “muchness”… y nos acercamos, no se si genios, o exitosos, o super héroes o super físicos… se que si a ser “felices”… pero es algo que sólo podemos expresar con personas que puedan calzarse nuestro zapatos.
          En otro comentario hablas sobre tu hijo, y me llama mucho a pensar, soy mamá de dos y entro en varias dificultades: 1) hablar de ellos desde su IQ?… nunca se cuanto es mucho o poco… serán “muy” superdotados o “no tanto?… sus estudios somo los use como herramienta de identificación, y me centro un poco más en características particulares. Los rasgos psicoemocionales son fundamentales para mi, porque creo que al final se trata de aprender a vivir en este mundo -el que tenemos- y mientras seguir construyendo lo que queremos… 2) me doy cuenta que, en el caso de mi hija, ella elude identificarse como alguien con IQ alto, en parte no lo cree, en parte evita la idea de lidiar con otros por ello. Al final se mimetiza un poco con el entorno, aunque siempre desentona de ese conjunto, en el caso de mi hijo, para mi frustración, en virtud de que el sistema educativo no lo desafía ni atiende, adopta la ley del mínimo esfuerzo. Entonces evade su potencial. Me debato entre mi propia beligerancia (creo que aquí la lección es que hay que medir cuáles batallas merecen ser libradas) y la necesidad de presionarlos, pero no hostigarlos… que lío!… ambos son adolescentes y eso le agrega un sabor especial.
          Ambos son muchachos brillantes, con un mundo interior muy rico, pero no exactamente Nerds de manual, al contrario…. creo que mi insistencia (creo que motivado a mis propios descubrimientos -y cómo es obvio, no quiero que pasen por las mismas crisis que yo pasé- ellos han optado por ignorar sus rasgos… me armo de paciencia, los apoyo, les exijo para que no se adaptan a la mediocridad… y espero a que comiencen a darse cuenta…. Pero es frustrante…

          Liked by 1 person

          • Mi hijo es un nerd al extremo, al punto que se lleva una corbata mariposa siete días la semana, no es solo un nerd pero una parodia del nerd. A él le encanta la matemática, adora el hacking, y lo mejor que le he dado es empujarle para la música a tiernos años, así que ahora con quince años toca siete instrumentos, canta, compone. Superdotado el carajito.
            Pero también es super sensible, casi autista, así que no agüenta que las personas le toquen, le burlen, etc., Se enferma fácilmente, me da muchas preocupaciones. Aquí en los EU, mi niño tentó dos veces soportar las escuelas públicas y no pudo. Siempre los otros muchachos le batían y él nunca podía meter mano a nadie. Acabó nervioso. Le enseñé en casa por seis años.
            Mi niña, en cambio, es super emotiva, artista, sociable, altamente excitable e fuerte como caballo, se enferma por media hora y lo supera. Pasé cinco años en su estela, preguntando cómo todo mundo ya sabía su nombre. Con la hija, escuela privada desde el principio, porque aquí las escuelas públicas son cada año peores y ella obviamente era una loca desde el nacimiento, que no tendría ninguna paciencia con esto.
            En fin encontramos una escuela donde caben los dos, donde les dejan ser quienes son, tan apta que mudamos de casa para estar mas cerca. Ya ves que no sé hablar de nada mas que mis hijos, los amo tanto.

            Pero volviendo a la música, esto ha sido un consuelo para mi hijo, que cuando la escuela no le reta es como una montaña sin pico, por tanto sube no llega al fin. No hay que encontrar su potencial en la escuela, solo acomodarse durante el día y usarla como una base de exploración. Como eran los novelistas para mí de niño son los músicos jazz para él, sus pares imaginados.
            Lo más difícil es cuando uno se aliena de su propia potencial. Causa tristeza. Entonces es mejor buscar su cuadro de referencia mas allá.

            Liked by 2 people

    • Nice comments! I particularly like when Carlita says that “[…] to own one’s process, to be the artist and engineer of one’s reinvention and in the midst of difficulties, be determined to be happy and building the version of us that we want to be”. Too bad I’m too lazy to properly translate your full message. But a translator may do the job, 😛
      And I also love the quotes posted by cmd1122 🙂 Yes: getting lost in lecture is a realm. Definitely. By the way: from my perspective, another realm is art. And particularly music is a big one 😉
      Oh! And travelling is yet another one.

      Liked by 4 people

  18. You know all this, Paula, but for the good of the order: My sibling was “The Smart One”. So anything I could achieve was…magic? Fluke? Luck? I mean, things were *easy*, so that didn’t mean I was smart, right?! I took a Mensa pre-test once and found out I could join if I took the “real” test. That was about 20 years ago. I compared notes with my sibling. If you believe in IQ, it turns out we are roughly equal. It turns out that we are both “The Smart One”. I am also The Intuitive One, The Sensitive One, etc. He’s Smart; I am an RFM. But yeah, I definitely questioned whether I was actually smart, despite having top grades. I was not pegged as “gifted” because I was also very quiet.

    Great post!

    Also, RFM will catch on!!!

    Liked by 2 people

  19. Hay un diálogo aquí… que bueno! De antemano pido disculpas a Dr. Papá y al resto, incluida a ti, Paula, si esto es demasiado largo… y entiendo y respeto a quien pase de largo, pero creo que deseaba mucho hablar de ello.
    “…es mejor buscar su cuadro de referencia más allá…” me gusta esta frase. Cada uno con su propio proceso -algunos identificados en la infancia, otros en la adultez- hemos tenido que vernos más allá de las referencias que nos han dado en nuestro entorno; esto para poder reconstruirnos hacia nuestra propia imagen. Ya sabes, “muchness” =) … Incluso estar aquí es buscar más allá y es muy necesario para poder avanzar. Nuestro hijos tienen la fortuna -y desgracia- de contar con padres motivados al desafío de su excepcionalidad, reconozco que a través de la crianza de mis hijos he reivindicado, desagraviado, mi propia historia de infancia. Y eso me encanta, algo así como: -¿qué así es que se cría?… yo siempre he creido que debieron hacerlo diferente, y mira, para alguien sobrexcitable, supersensible y que requiere desafíos, es “ASI” y mira que buen resultado!- es gratificante, pero al mismo tiempo, creo que comprender tanto a mis hijos, los ha dejado sin mucho en que desafiarse. En lo profundo, sigo esperando por su rebeldía, por el momento en que me digan: sabes? estás equivocada, y que defiendan eso… que construyan su propia muchosidad.
    Y es una inquietud que me cavila permanentemente en la cabeza y el alma.
    Digo orgullosa que son excelentes, con un orgullo muy parecido al agradecimiento y la humildad.
    Mi táctica? hace años escuché a una mamá decir: “es que las personas aprenden a ser hijos, cuando se hacen padres” me hizo sentir muy auto cuestionada, porque sonaba a sabiduría, pero era una reprimenda. Cuando tuve mis hijos, volteé esa idea, y he ido aprendiendo a ser madre, recordando lo que era ser hija. ¿Cómo veía el mundo? ¿Cómo incomprendía a los adultos? ¿De dónde nacía una mentira, o un desafío, de cuáles miedos? y he trabajado desde ahí… Sin embargo me cuestiono.
    Lamentablemente no hay en mi país un espacio educativo público o privado que apoye o potencie o desafíe las capacidades de los niños y si bien mi hijo (que ya tiene 14) no es tan nerd como dices del tuyo -que por cierto creo que es hermosísimo lo que describes- es un niño que a los 8 años leía a A. Poe, que adora dibujar y hacer teatro, con talento para los idiomas (aunque aún no he logrado poder pagarle clases de idiomas) y que se deprime ante el poco desafío que le ofrece la escuela (secundaria). Extraordinariamente sensible -que niño de 14 años prefiere ver El Padrino (todas) o La Vida es Bella, porque el protagonista es una persona “que siempre saca lo más bello de entre las dificultades”, o dice que su película favorita es Psicosis, porque la vio a los 9 años -si, le encanta el género de terror-… Sin embargo se desafió socialmente a sí mismo, lo ví hacerlo por su cuenta y desarrolló su capacidad física: a hecho taekwondo, aikido y kung fu y recién empezó como brigadista juvenil del cuerpo de bomberos, porque siente que necesita hacer cosas en las que pueda ayudar a otras personas. Ama hacer Teatro y es super talentoso en ello. Además logró cierta adaptabilidad entre sus compañeros, mitad aprender a comprender las diferencias (bueno, en realidad es peculiar, ahora que lo estoy escribiendo, que durante la edad preescolar, el niño con el que más compartía en el salón era un niño con síndrome de dawn. Se llevaban excelente) y mitad escoger con pinzas sus amigos, que sin ser como él, pueden compartir intereses. Pero dentro de él hay un RFM, más parecido a una galaxia. Mi preocupación es que veo como “todo le gusta, todo podría hacerlo, y nada lo atrapa” y al sentirse sin propósito, escoge esforzarse al mínimo y dejar su mundo para él. Entonces apuesto porque me supere y arme su propio cuadro.
    Mi hija? se parece mucho a lo que describes de tu hija. Dinámica, sobreexcitable. Muy preocupada por diversos temas, con mucho talento kinestésico. Desde ha hecho gimnasia y ballet clásico. Decidió -a mi pesar con el ballet- que prefiere la danza aérea (danza acrobática en telas) tiene poco tiempo y es muy talentosa. Es más extrovertida, pero en el fondo disimula el estrés que le causa ser muy dura consigo misma. Esa niña es un roble.
    Mi mayor pesar es no poder brindarles (por falta de opciones y recursos) condiciones académicas que los desafíen y ayuden a desarrollar sus capacidades, como ves, trato de compensarlo con actividades fuera del contexto escolar.. Con diálogo, con vivencias. Creo que el mundo está afuera y me encanta que lo descubran, desde su perspectiva.

    Creo que a toda costa hay que darles las opciones para que descubran en las ciencias y en el arte un mundo diferente, porque efectivamente lo es.

    La música (que a mi me hubiese encantado explorar), la danza, el teatro, el dibujo (mi hijo puede pasar horas dibujando, “desconectado” del mundo) son sanadores para lidiar con la hostilidad diaria. De un entorno social que es hostil entre todos, y especialmente con lo que no entiende.

    Perdón si divagué algo… o mucho…

    Liked by 1 person

    • Carlita, me parece que eres una persona con más calma que yo, que a veces pierdo la paciencia con mis hijos. Si no fuera que tengo dos y la menor es una muchacha siempre feliz y centrada, me culparía a mi mismo por las ansiedades que sufre mi hijo. Puede ser que nuestra combinación no sea perfecta, y que yo he cometido errores, sean de sobreprotección o de brusquedad, pero también hay algo en su naturaleza que le lleva al sufrimiento a través de falta de comprensión de los demás. Espero que con tiempo esto se sana, o por lo menos se acomoda.

      Como todos muchachos dotados, me sorprende siempre. El otro día me dijo, ‘Papi, sabes, estoy dibujando pajaritos,’ y abre su cuaderno y allí hay los dibujos tan nítidos, tan exactos, que parecen fotocopias, hechos a lápiz. Nunca antes se dio por dibujar, es un niño que sufrió con escribir a mano, pero puf de la nada dibuja maravillas. ‘Pero solo los papagayos, que me encantan.’ ¿Quien puede saber lo que van a hacer? (ojalá que fuera siempre la tarea)

      Mi hijo no tiene ningún talento en los deportes, si le tiras una pelota no agarra, esquiva. Ni puedo imaginarle a él en un cuerpo de bomberos, que no le gustan los machos y no aguanta el humo. Es bueno tener hijos fuertes, pero es mi niña la más fuerte. Ella se da por combate como su hijo, estudia esgrima (con sable, la más agresiva) e jiu-jitsu brasileño.

      Carlita, no te preocupes tanto por no poder darles todo a sus hijos. A mí me gusta que sí puedo, pero también es cierto que no siempre es bueno para ellos, que los niños que no crecen con todo lo que quieren aprenden a luchar y a buscar, no solo elegir entre lo dado. Provoca ansiedad en los padres ver que los niños tienen oportunidades que uno mismo carecía de niño y no las aprecie. Te aseguro que las escuelas que yo asistí de niño fueron peores que las de sus niños e yo sobreviví. A veces lo peor para un niño es saber que su papi siempre puede rescatarlo.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Dr. Dad and Carlita. It looks like I’m going to have to learn Spanish to keep up with you! Normally, I review comments before I post them but I don’t always go to google translate for each comment of yours. So I’m trusting you two don’t need monitoring! 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

        • Thanks Paula – and thanks Google translator! – It’s interesting, what’s happening on your page, and also wonderful, both in English and Spanish. What the comments in your post says, which is the motivator to them, is our intense need to meet with peers, talk, listen, learn from other experiences … and therefore the dialogues … it would be great if you could ask yourself something similar to a group on the internet …. I don’t know. But I think something beautiful is happening here. Thank you very much for making it possible Paula …. Be certain that we are in tune in the subject and in the experiences, and that it is a fraternal and very enriching dialogue … (and I tell you that I continue reading the books, between the I work and manually translating one page at a time … they are incredibly valuable and therapeutic !!!!) Thank you for being and having opened this respite.
          Hugs!!!

          Liked by 1 person

      • Sabes? no soy muy calma en realidad. He tenido que aprender a conservar la calma, porque ellos lo necesitan así. Y cuando les das la oportunidad de asumir roles de liderazgo familiar, y comparten juntos esos roles, te das cuenta que tus hijos, con sus debilidades y fortalezas, serán tu gran apoyo. Así sucede entre nosotros. Pero ha sido ensayo y error -casi siempre mi error-… pienso que aprenden a ser hijos al tiempo que yo aprendo a ser mamá, y mi estrategia estelar, es que trato de conciliar mi perspectiva como mamá, con la perspectiva que recordaba tener a su edad, es decir, trato de nunca olvidar como se veía el mundo desde esos zapatos.
        Comparto mucho tus reflexiones, también pienso igual, hace unos días mi hija (12) me dice: -mamá, lo bueno de esta crisis económica y de las carencias que hemos tenido, es que ahora nos damos cuenta de lo valiosa que es la comida, y como debemos apreciarla-… tuve que pisarme el pie para contener las ganas de llorar… Pero ese nivel de profundidad tienen!
        No te enfoques en lo que tu hijo no puede, o no sabe o no quiere hacer, fortalece lo que sí. Y que saque lo mejor de eso. Mi hijo no era muy atlético, la diferencia es que una vez que él quiso desarrollar su capacidad física, puso tanto empeño que logró maravillas, pero si no lo hubiese hecho, también hubiese estado excelente…
        Lo más difícil es medir cuando presionar y exigir, y cuando soltar y entender… es muy duro, pero se puede.
        Pero coincido tremendamente con tu reflexión, lo que pasa es que ahorita aquí, no se trata de darles todo, sino la lucha es poder garantizar lo básico (muchas veces la comida, medicinas, etc)… pero he aprendido que todo es… UN DIA A LA VEZ…
        Abrazo a a ti, Dr. Dad y a Paula…
        Gracias por este espacio.

        Liked by 1 person

  20. I’ve been reading your posts for a while now, but only now have I found the courage to say something. Over here, I feel like you’re reading me, as if I’m an open book. I always feel like there are so many layers, trapping me within myself, and no matter hard I try to scream my thoughts, bursting at the seams, nobody seems to understand them. A jumble of words, rushing out like a mighty river unleashing it’s power, but no birds flying above notice. No person (except a few) comprehend me. I feel stupid, then, like a babbling mealworm left unheard underground. They say I’m gifted, but I only strive for what’s simple to accomplish, because achievement raises my patch of dirt. However, I disagree, because it’s always the difficult that I tend to avoid. I can paint a masterpiece, write a poem, but I can’t flip a water bottle, hit the ball in volleyball, or play chess. Therefore I do not try, therefore I am not smart, and once again my patch of dirt envelopes my mealworm self. A lion that’s been a lamb for so long, I’ve forgotten how to roar. Paula, reading your posts though, has given me a chance to prove my thoughts about myself wrong. And maybe one day, one day, I’ll be able to roar again.

    Liked by 3 people

  21. The ones that resonated the most with me:
    “your identity may now be dependent on achieving” – yes, my therapist had a hint on that one… But the whole “efforts, not outcomes” strategy doesn’t work for me either because I go too crazy on the effort part. Sigh. I know.
    “Learning has always been easy. You think: Can’t anyone do what I can do?” – Instead, I think: “If others can do it, so can I!” So I want to learn and be able to do everything that everybody else can. Or I’ll die trying. (How can I turn this into a career? LOL!) 😉
    “Or you then feel extreme pressure to always be successful. At everything. So any success just makes the pressure worse.” – Exactly. Either failure or success have the same effect, so there is no way out!
    “You feel like a total failure if you have not had any particularly spectacular achievements.” – I do. Indeed. If I am so great and I can change the world why I am still sitting here trying to figure out what to do?
    “You can not admit that you need help because you are supposed to know it all.” – Yes. But that one had to be overcome otherwise I would never have finished my PhD. If you don’t learn that then, you will never learn it. You just need the help! But in private life it is a bit harder to ask for help. It almost physically hurts.
    “… there is room for growth, … spiritual expansion, trauma healing, building relationships, and strengthening neural pathways” – let us work on that now instead.
    Thank you for existing, Paula!

    Liked by 2 people

  22. Learning doesn’t come easily for me. Could be that I am not really smart, but it doesn’t bother me. (What disturb me the most is the fact that I am gifted and stupid at the same time, how is it possible?) There are too many loopholes in whatever my teachers have taught/ textbook etc. It is impossible for me to understand something. I’m failing in school, while other kids are doing just fine. It’s so puzzling- how could they understand what they learn??? I might be really dumb but I strongly feel that I need to be in university, and start learning from there. Applying knowledge without understanding it is against my principle. Sorry for (kind of) ranting here. 😓

    Liked by 1 person

    • It can be complicated when it comes to school, Eliette. Sometimes schooling doesn’t meet your particular learning needs for various reasons. Some people are 2e or twice exceptional. They can have learning challenges that might make it hard to be academically successful but they might still be gifted! If you love to learn in your own way, in your own time, and if you fit many of the other traits I’m describing, it’s still likely that you have a rainforest mind.

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.